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 Assaulting a battle line of Hammers/Thuds

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Totbuae



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PostSubject: Assaulting a battle line of Hammers/Thuds   Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:36 pm

Hammers/Thuds seem to be the meat and potatoes unit of choice for a lot of people and indeed they have the merit for such a role. Considering this, you often find yourself having to break through a battle line (a two or three rank deep line abreast formation) of them.

Other than the obvious (arty, ground attack VTOLs) I've found that charging in with a few Stumpies/Raiders closely followed by a main attack force of Flashes/Instigators seems to work fairly well. The medium tanks soak up the damage long enough for the light tanks to close in and deliver the real DPS (medium tanks, while tough, don't do a lot of DPS).

This however assumes the Hammers/Thuds are there unsupported. Assaulting Hammers supported by Box-o-Deaths or Thuds supported by Levelers is a whole different task (and a very daunting one as well).
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Roxas
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PostSubject: Re: Assaulting a battle line of Hammers/Thuds   Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:13 am

In assaulting Hammer/Thud, I find that your strategy works the majority of the time. Not only that, but most players do NOT support their Thuds once a significant amount of defenses are destroyed, assuming there is no further reason. This being the case, a ruse-and-destroy is often a good idea.

Furthermore, surrounding the Artillery Kbots to dilute their fire is often a good idea.
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Overkill
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PostSubject: Re: Assaulting a battle line of Hammers/Thuds   Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:56 am

I myself find levelers, supported by reapers a very effective counter. The levelers have near the same range as hammers, and monster dps and aoe, but as we know are very fragile. The reapers cost more, thus will be targeted first, and with their heavy armor will be an excellent meat shield to absorb hammer rounds.
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PostSubject: Re: Assaulting a battle line of Hammers/Thuds   Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:21 am

Yeah, are the thuds attacking or defending? If they're attacking, they won't have support from rocket boxes. And if they're defending, you can make them attack you or retreat with snipers/morties/artillery.

If they're attacking your options increase because they tend to bunch up and are very vulnerable to the aoe weapons of things like levellers, vashps, and pyros.

Thuds generally strike me as the jack of all trades unit. They can do pretty much everything other than anti-air, but they really aren't good at anything.
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Overkill
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PostSubject: Re: Assaulting a battle line of Hammers/Thuds   Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:42 am

Who says you cant drop a couple lolboxes behind an advancing column of hammers?.

and Hammers CANNOT do anti-armor. (cost for cost anyways)
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PostSubject: Re: Assaulting a battle line of Hammers/Thuds   Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:45 am

You can, but a rocket box won't help you attack. It will only provide a fallback point.
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Totbuae



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PostSubject: Re: Assaulting a battle line of Hammers/Thuds   Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:59 am

As of ver 1.47, Hammers/Thuds still seem a little bit too effective vs medium and heavy armor, in my humble opinion. Perhaps a more radical damage reduction is in order? I was thinking more along the lines of 30% against medium armor and 15% against heavy (this might be too much, though, I have a tendency to be a little bit too radical).
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thor
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PostSubject: Re: Assaulting a battle line of Hammers/Thuds   Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:56 am

I agree. Something like 50% medium, 30% heavy is what I'm thinking. 30-15 is almost certainly too radical.
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PostSubject: Re: Assaulting a battle line of Hammers/Thuds   Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:47 pm

What are thuds meant to be good against? They don't seem to do well against fast units, and they have poor damage against medium and heavy units.
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Totbuae



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PostSubject: Re: Assaulting a battle line of Hammers/Thuds   Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:24 pm

They way I see it is that Thuds/Hammers are walking infantry support guns. They're meant to provide infantry level support fire against other infantry and light vehicles. The Morty can do this as well but the Thud is much more affordable in metal/energy cost and build time.
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123vtemp



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PostSubject: Re: Assaulting a battle line of Hammers/Thuds   Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:31 am

The beauty to NOTA was that unlike BA, kbots had decent fire power, but have no armor or hp while veh do. veh move a great deal faster but can not turn as quickly or climb as steep slopes.

In a shoot out kbots should do far better than veh for dps. On a decent sized map kbots are to slow to even make it to the battle. Veh are good for base smashing while kbots will be shredded by def. In battle Kbots would win for cost due to dmg output. Still as armies get bigger veh will start to out do kbots due to aoe and range. After armies get fairly big Kbot are more of a filler/ support unit and veh units will supply the effective destructive power.
(T1 focus)

People coming from BA complain about kbots. NOTA is NOT BA. Thank God!
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123vtemp



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PostSubject: Proper Maps size is needed for correct balancing   Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:58 am

NOTA is made for bigger maps. It is on bigger maps where the balance between kbots and veh really comes out. Determining balance from smaller maps may be a grave mistake.

On small maps speed which is half of why you would build veh is not noticed be cause after a few steps you are in your enemies base. What people fail to see is that they are playing NOTA on a BA scale when NOTA is a much greater scale. NOTA is designed for large scale war and nothing less. small maps are no way to judge NOTA. there should be a large number of com tower base construction radii. A nice sized game would have 1 or more radii between your ally and four or more between your enemy. Two people on a 16x16 map is starting to get very tight. 3v3 on a 20x20 is decent (favoring corner vs corner rectangular start boxes) There are very few maps which are actually provide a well designed 6v6 game.

Most 32x32 maps are best as 2v2 NOTA.
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Totbuae



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PostSubject: Re: Assaulting a battle line of Hammers/Thuds   Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:58 pm

KBOTs have equal or perhaps even better mobility than vehs once you take the Skybus/ValkyrieII into consideration. Besides, I'm not saying that vehs should win against KBOTs in a brawl, what I'm saying is that Hammers/Thuds perform so well against medium and heavy armor that few people even bother to build Rockos/Storms.
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123vtemp



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PostSubject: Re: Assaulting a battle line of Hammers/Thuds   Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:29 am

T1 units typically can not compete with the heavy armored unit weapons, which often renders them useless. Rrockos do not have the range or speed hp to make up for their lacking traits. As a result they are rarely the unit of choice.
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123vtemp



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PostSubject: Re: Assaulting a battle line of Hammers/Thuds   Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:32 am

perhaps stumpies could use a smidgen more hp. But still... they do not seem to be costly. And if stumpies, what about core? or should medium armor be tougher?

Tot,
While hammers are arm's meat and potatoes, core has the morty.
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