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 tanks, rocket bots, and thuds/hammer

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123vtemp



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PostSubject: tanks, rocket bots, and thuds/hammer   Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:53 am

The thud/ veh unbalance is noticeably too large. countless people have complained and mentioned how very little effort it needed to a good flash spam to work. Now not only can veh dodge armies but they do not have to doge armies but can confront and destroy them. The zeus is now more readily used because it is one of the few kbots that can hold the balance.
But as we know the zeus is painful slow and has next to no range for such a unit.

Before the change rocket bots could be used and were. But the poor rocket bot design prevents them from being a widely spread unit. There have always been counters to kbot and hammer spams. Just 2 hellfish can fix the problem or too many enemy hammers. Well used levelers can demolish gigantic spams. Once T2 units appeared hammers no hope of competition, having neither the range speed or hp to compete.

The bottom line is that rocket bots are simply a poor unit design and that will prevent them from being ideal. It must be said that in bugs even before the nerfs rocket bots some how had an uncanny nature to be very useful. I believe the reason it because the rocket bots did not have may aoe weapons or weapons with large range being used on them, only melee units and mid ranged spitting bugs. Also the rocket bot would not have to go to the fight. came to them.

The flash it now a supper peewee as well. Light armor and more hp is probably a good idea. Still, I can not tell if it was a map or it light tanks are a tad slow.


Last edited by 123vtemp on Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Overkill
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PostSubject: Re: tanks, rocket bots, and thuds/hammer   Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:20 pm

Laughing

ROCKOS OWN VEH.

Bottom line, just because you cannot spam a single unit that kills everything, doesnt mean its imba. Rockos are fine verse flash and medium tanks, i fail to see how they can be deamed useless or inefective, when they RAPE vehicles. This change also made zues and pyro more usefull, made storms USEFULL, and it also makes vehicles usefull on the battle field. I have seen less people somplain about this, than i have seen people complain about op thuds, and single unit spam (thuds)
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123vtemp



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PostSubject: Re: tanks, rocket bots, and thuds/hammer   Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:10 pm

You have not tested/experienced this version (1.49) as much as I have. Nor you been around to hear the complaints. Numpty/Muppet, Joe, ATM, and others have complained openly on TS about the effects of the new balance design.
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123vtemp



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PostSubject: Re: tanks, rocket bots, and thuds/hammer   Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:41 pm

Thanks for stating the point.

[5:40:16 PM] <[PWN]Overkill[NOTA]> flash > rocko
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123vtemp



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PostSubject: More about light tanks and Hammers/Thuds   Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:38 pm

Flashes and thuds/hammers do not balance in well. To fix it the light tank should probably become light tanks again with more hp. It's low hp was getting it killed too early by non units t1 kbots. Thuds/hammers should do a little bit less dmg to light tanks than before. Thuds/Hammers need a dmg boost, say 15%. ATM they do not not had the dmg to stand up for cost in an early t1 battle vs veh. the 50% dmg to medium armor is has been a heavy nerf. Lets try a 65% dmg dealt.

The rocket kbots still pork combat units. their projectile delivery design among other problems, coupled with the long reload will keep them from being a truly useful unit. Keep in mind that most units do their jobs very well when used properly but the rocket bots are not every good at their own job description.
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PostSubject: Re: tanks, rocket bots, and thuds/hammer   Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:50 pm

5:40:16 PM] <[PWN]Overkill[NOTA]> flash > rocko

WHAT?!?!

STOP TWISTING MY WORDS AROUND.
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123vtemp



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PostSubject: Re: tanks, rocket bots, and thuds/hammer   Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:52 pm

lol I copied and pasted :p

You said that moments before I posted that here last night XD
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PostSubject: Re: tanks, rocket bots, and thuds/hammer   Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:56 pm

Yes, You didnt copy paste the whole conversation and situation Razz
So..... We can come to the conclusion, that 123v needs to stop messing with me. MMy opinion is my opinion, i dont chnage it. so GTFO.
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123vtemp



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PostSubject: Re: tanks, rocket bots, and thuds/hammer   Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:52 pm

Fine, I cheat you of nothing:
http://pastebin.com/f17677e4
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PostSubject: Re: tanks, rocket bots, and thuds/hammer   Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:10 pm

I do agree that tanks are more powerful than they should be now. Thud/hammer damage will be raised to 60%, rocket kbots will be slightly cheaper. I know some people would rather we did small, incremental changes, but sometimes big changes are a faster way to zero in on the best balance.
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PostSubject: Re: tanks, rocket bots, and thuds/hammer   Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:07 pm

Sounds good to me....
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123vtemp



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PostSubject: Re: tanks, rocket bots, and thuds/hammer   Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:32 am

guess what !

I am still leaning towards lightly more dmg for thuds.
No I am not yet certain if this is a correct notion.

Mean while lets keep in mind that the slow army needs to have its perks.

While I am at it it should be mentioned that it would be stupid that a unit to do well against a thud spam if it needed to enter the range. a thud spam should hold a tremendous amount of power by nature of the concept of numbers and the dmg which results from it. The proper counter would be to simply out range it as a morty can or do drop some nice AOe dmg into it so that a thud spam is not a viable option. Becaus a good player will make it imposible to spam thuds and not lose them I never find my self with many thuds in any one place. Even tho it may work, I never mass my thuds because I know how easy it is to remove a thud spam weather or not my opponetn it wiseenough to counter it. It simply would not be the move fo a seasoned player who had tactical composure.

Sorry about the excess rant. The ignorant remarks still plague me.
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PostSubject: Re: tanks, rocket bots, and thuds/hammer   Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:40 pm

I see nothing wrong with hammers/thuds being the bread and butter unit of armies, as long as there are enough ways to counter them. Their slow speed already makes them risky since faster vehicle armies can easily outmaneuver them.
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